Is the need to qualify for the CL killing Arsenal’s style of football?

TotalArsenal

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I was on a French campsite when Holland played the final against Spain in the 2010 World Cup. The bar was full with Dutchmen wearing the national colours and I was one of them.

The whole tournament had been quite a surreal experience for me and many fellow Dutchmen. Van Marwijk, the Holland Manager, had somehow managed to make the Dutch play like Germany used to do: save, solid and efficient. It was nevertheless an incredible feat to get this Holland team to the final with a defence consisting of Stekelenburg (GK), Van Der Wiel, Heitinga, Mathijsen and the veteran Van Bronckhorst (C).

In order to do so, Van Marwijk opted for a wall of steel and menace in front of this brittle defence: the notorious Van Bommel  and De Jong. Basically Holland played with two groups of players: seven defensive minded players with some licence for the full backs to roam forward, and four attackers to somehow between them bring home the bacon. It worked well, and Holland did what Germany used to do: get to the final without playing brilliant football, except for the quarter final victory against Brazil perhaps.

But Holland just was not Holland, as for generations of Dutchmen the national team is expected to play attacking, flowing, total football. It felt to a large extent that Van Marwijk had been denying our identity: our raison d’etre in the International football scene.

However, being in the final of the world cup is still a very special moment for most nations in the world and especially for a weeny one like Holland, and of course most Dutchmen wanted Holland to finally win a world cup final; this was the third attempt after all.

We all know what happened in the final: the footballing team won deservedly and Holland lost – not just the final but also quite a bit of its decennia old reputation.

The response of most Dutchmen in the campsite pub was both one of disappointment AND relief. Once again we finished runners-up, but at least we did not have to watch Holland play in such an unnatural, and mostly unattractive way again.

What has all this to do with Arsenal? Two things come to mind.

Firstly, the way we played in the final part of last season. In order to secure CL football next season, Arsene and Steve decided to sacrifice the style and philosophy of our football and play with two defensive minded midfielders in front of our brittle looking defence. It seemed  a similar solution as Van Marwijk had done with Holland. It resulted in a great return  of results but our football was hard to watch at times, as just like Holland, Arsenal played very un-Arsenal-like.

Secondly, I feel that our constant need to qualify for the CL is holding Arsene back to experiment with the team properly, and give our up and coming talents more chances to break through in the first team. Once again, I believe this is holding us back from playing attractive, attacking, Wengerball football.

Since the departure of Cesc, Arsene has been trying hard to get the team play some sort of Wengerball again, especially during the first five months of last season and  the season before. But for the second season running he has not been able to achieve this, as he had to revert back to result-orientated football during the final part of our seasons in order to secure CL football.

The big question is: will he get Arsenal back to playing a form of attacking, total football again, and if so, how is he going to do it?

Wirtten by: TotalArsenal.

127 thoughts on “Is the need to qualify for the CL killing Arsenal’s style of football?”

  • TA, solid write-up as always :). I particularly liked the comparison of our current trend away from beautiful flowing football for results to that of Holland’s in the world cup! I agree that the constant need for CL football is ultimately holding us back from achieving the long-term success that everyone desires. We’re largely a club content in a stagnant state of 3rd or 4th place, evident by our philosophy in the transfer market and in the constant switch of tactics in order to ensure we get the desired results.

    I don’t think we’ll ever be able to achieve sustained success with Wengerball footy until the club is ready to spend on world-class attacking players again OR be patient enough to allow our younger players to develop into them. I believe it comes down to the board’s objectives/goals and how ruthless they will/have been with being satisfied with just CL qualification. If the intention is to achieve greater results then AW must be given the license to spend and be willing to do so. If he is not the man for the job, then the board must replace him with someone who will spend.

    I have nothing but respect for AW, but one must ask the difficult question: What is he trying to achieve right now and what is he satisfied with? Is meeting the board’s basic requirement of CL footy enough for him too? His comments after the season ended suggest otherwise, but his moves in the transfer window will dictate whether or not his motivation can match his bold proclamations

  • The other question to ask would be: what is the board/owner interested in? My assumption is that I doubt they care enough what style of football we play, so long as CL qualification is achieved. It’s clear that there is no other objective or else AW would have been let go long ago. Thus, part of the blame ultimately goes to AW for simply going with the flow of things just to maintain his managerial position with the club. However, would it really matter if a different manager came in if the board/owner only allowed said manager to spend enough to attain CL qualification?

    The obvious answer is no, it would not make a difference. It’s also very possible that our club would be in a much worse position than we are currently in if AW was not the manager. In sum, AW would be wise to demand for the board to provide him with the necessary resources to bring in the level of quality required to contend for silverware in earnest (if he truly wants to break out of the cycle of struggling for CL qualification).

  • Hi HH 🙂

    All good questions to ask.

    I dont believe our BoD are happy just to finish in the top-four every season. That is not the way to increase the value of their shares and commercial opportunities. Winning silverware is a prerequisite to making the ‘business’ more successful, and of course, valuable.

    The question is more how much risk do they want to take in the short term?

    Next season is a big opportunity for Wenger to compete at the top again and yes his movements in the transfer market will tell us a lot of how he will go about it.

  • Great way to compare these two teams, TA, especially for us who have had soft spot for both.

    In a way, it’s a story about selling soul to the worst of all devils – The Master of Success. Both Arsenal and Holland – despite being synonyms for beautiful football for years – have been rather unsuccessful and far from reaching the trophy for some time. In the very same year Dennis Bergkamp with huge help from Marc Overmars brought first double to Highbury, Holland were a pair of decent shooting boots on Patrick Kluivert’s feet away from reaching World Cup Final after Bergkamp scored THAT goal against Argentina. In the very same year in which Arsenal lost in all three cup-competitions due to poor penalty-taking with especially painful defeat to Galatasaray in UEFA Cup Final, Holland lost even better chance to win European trophy – at home soil against Italy after two penalties missed during 120 minutes and three more in shoot-out (Sergio Ramos’ notorious penalty against Bayern was actually an attempt of NASA to find Stam’s ball). It wouldn’t take all six degrees of separation to find weird connection between Arsenal failures with the one of Oranje (Portugal, Mourinho, Chavs, Arshavin, Maniche, Boulachrouz, Robben, Van Judas’ injuries). Of course, the biggest difference among two teams was the fact Arsenal have actually won something with Wenger’s beautiful football.

    What Van Marwiijk did at World Cup 2010 was similar to some elections – Total Football, that has been beaten too many times, had to step down after Russia massacred Holland in quarterfinals of EC 2008 (after Holland dominated over their opponents in Group of Death – France, Italy, Romania) with brilliant performance of future Arsenal player Arshavin taking breaths away. Rational Football, the one that didn’t promise beauty of performance but results and solid defending, took TF’s place. And, RF nearly delivered what was asked for – Holland went all the way to the Final and were just one Arjen Robben’s proper finishing away from winning World Cup. Every victory Holland made on the tournament was hard-fought one but at least there were victories, even against Brazil that won two previous encounters with Holland in World Cup 1994 and 1998 respectively. Only two players showed world-class performances – Arjen Robben and Wesley Sneijder were good part of Dutch national team while two blokes who looked like they were cell-mates in maximum security prison (orange shirts made that impression even stronger) were health inspectors of opponents’ creative forces.

    There is a huge detail that should be mentioned – Van Marwiijk didn’t deliver at EURO 2012 where Holland were (as usual) in Group of Death and was sacked.

    What I’m trying to say is, Arsene Wenger is and should be clever enough to know that we can’t go for good with the system that brought us to 4th spot at the end of the season. It was a short-term measure that served (past tense) its purpose and should be kept in basement for special occasions. Also, I don’t believe that referees will spare us (offside-goals that linesmen don’t see, red cards that referees don’t call, penalties for us that shouldn’t have stood nor the ones against us that should have been given) if we show that we can endanger Manchester duopoly and Chavs with Maureen.

    If we really have a war-chest, if we really have Cesc Fabregas within our financial reach, if we really have ambitions that go above fourth spot…then, my dear friend TA, you have all answers that you (and all of us) are expecting. 😉

  • I think its plain and simple what needs to happen. In the league wenger needs to play the way we finished the season 27, 1-0 wins and a few draws is all that is required. If he wants to ay some pretty tippy tappy wengerball the champions league and domestic cups is a great place to showcase that. I reqlly would like to see us with 2 teams. I am not saying one for the league and one for the cups but certainly he needs to have different styles for certain opposition. If that means changing vital partnerships and formations then he has to take that on board. All the successful managers are managing to do that. Hell even benitez managed it and he done it without bringing in his own players.

    Let’s get 2 starting x1s plus. I know people want to see the back of the likes of gervinho djourou diaby mannone etc. But all we really need to do is get shot of santos denilson park chamakh bendtner. That will open up 5 spaces in the 25 man squad. In addition to that we can add martinez jenkinson miquel boateng yennaris frimpong wilshire aneke eisfeld chamberlain ryo afobe and hopefully sanogo. That will give us a 43 man squad of which we could obviously send a few more out to join campbell wellington and galindo on loan.

  • Wow Admir, that is a fantastic comment and much better than my post! 🙂

    I agree with you that Arsene cannot afford to continue with the end of last season’s style of football, and very good point about the luck we had during the run-in.

    If Cesc really is available this summer and we don’t get him back, you are right in that Arsene will have missed the chance of his life to get back to proper footie.

  • bc 🙂

    All good stuff. Wenger swapping style of play or formation from one game to the next is not likely to ever happen, but I can see why you would want it.

  • Hi TA,

    You just hit the nail on the head with your comment @ 23:23, the appetite for risk is just not there and they would prefer stability in performances/results than going “all in” on an attempt at silverware.

    The board is content enough with the “success” being achieved as is, but would be happier with silverware but will not invest heavily in order to achieve that goal, in fear of not receiving a guaranteed return on their investment.

  • thanks TA, splendid read and a great comparison.

    didn’t Argentina stick to playing total football and come up well short against Germany in the Qf’s ? but to Maradona’s credit he tried sticking to his guns and words but didn’t have the right players to deliver the goods and the Netherlands i feel don’t tend to play as 11 individuals all fighting for each other instead it seems like a bunch of superstars wanting to do it all on their own .

    it’s true that half way through the season , AW realized that it’s time to go to plan B since plan A has failed for a variety of different reasons which i won’t get into for now but i do feel that if we’re to move forward and instill that level of fear in our opponents we once used to, we really ought to get back to wengerball and not only that but also be more ruthless on home soil……that for me is a mark of a great manager…

    for all his bad publicity and shenanigans, one thing you have to give Jose.M credit for is , his home record….he hardly drops points at home let alone loses again…for all his tactical brilliance, scoring 100 goals 3 times in a row is also something you have to admire.

    i feel if we start playing with confidence at home, not only our flare, total footy will be back but also it sorts out all the remaining puzzles and we’re gonna be right up there once more…..how he does it ? that’s the million dollar question isn’t it ?

    for starters he needs a good chunk of about 7/8 midfielders in the squad who are readily available to train together…..with 5-6 strikers…..

    when i say 8/9 mf’s, i include (Arteta/ramsey/JW/Santi/Rosicky/coq/Eisfield/Cesc?/Wanyama?) i won’t include

    forwards (Ox/Poldi/Theo/giroud/gerv/gnabry/David Villa?)

    with the above individuals, we’ll have plenty of quality and numbers for Wenger to work his magic and get the understanding bit sorted in training sessions and on pre tour, what this also does is that it allows for player rotation easily ….competition for places is always healthy and this also allows us to revert back to plan b if wenger wants to control the game more depending on the situation….

    last but not the least, if you looked at the games we played closely last season then for the first 45-60 minutes, we have been playing to plan b and after the 60 minute mark we have reverted to total football and hurt a lot of teams in a short period of time, for e.g west ham ? we score like 3 goals in about 7 minutes ? newcastle , we blew them away in 10 minutes e.t.c e.t.c in fact , if we took only our 2nd half performances into the equation then we would have been champions, isn’t it ?

    so the current crop of players have it in them but with a few quality additions we’ll have more creativity and mileage for it as well.

  • Good read. I think Cesc departure, song departure and The fear of having the worst defence in the league has almost wiped away the sight of beautiful football from arsenal..i read an article in ’08 that says “cesc was the only player in Europe that create an open goalscoring chance every 27 mins”,.arsenal LOST that.

  • Play to win. That’s it.Who cares about dancing football. The epl,other leagues as well and sports in general are focussed on winning.That is unless you play for entertainment.
    Remember the harlem globetrotters?They were a tremendous basketball team and were famous for their clowning .However they were not in any particular basketball,imho,playing for the championship.
    If that were the case ,I believe they will focus on winning and not playing to the gallery. Arsenal have to decide.If they want dancing soccer,they willnnot win any game.The gunners were a 4th ranked club in the world and have fallen to 8th.If the gunners under Wenger continue to be unable to challenege and win trophies,the next ranking could see them fall out of the top 10.

  • Malaysian Gunner, the Harlem Globetrotters are an act that travel around the continent for entertainment…they are not a professional sports franchise.

    I understand your point, but you at least have to consider the fact that there are many professional sports teams that are able to combine success with playing beautifully. In football, look no further than Barcelona, Borussia Dortmund, Ajax and to a lesser extent Bayern Munich. In other NA sports, the Pittsburgh Penguins, Detroit Red Wings, Chicago Blackhawks, Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat, New England Patriots, Green Bay Packers etc. that play either puck possession, up tempo offense, air the ball type strategies that are largely considered more aesthetically appealing.

    The only reason why our brand of football, termed “Wengerball”, has not been met with success lately is because the pieces in place are not at the required level. In this particular scenario, the sum is not greater than the sum of its parts, since you need top quality footballers (not necessarily world-class or the best in the world) in order to properly play free flowing, beautiful football.

  • Hope springs eternal
    watching beautiful Arsenal
    that one day in may
    playing the arsenal way
    will see us win the treble

  • In league matches, we start playing with the mentality of not losing, test out the opponent’s capability during the match and go for the kill should the opponent’s will weaken/ lose their concentration/ tires out at the latter stages of the game.
    3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 0 point for a loss, all 38 matches adding up to the final standing at the end of the season.

    In cup matches (applies to two-leg ties), we start playing with the mentality of winning and look to finish off the opponent at every single opportunity given during the 90+ minutes.
    Win the match or aggregate of a two-legged tie = win the tournament/ advance to the next round; Lose the match or aggregate of a two-legged tie = better luck next season.

  • Just wondering what this new word you created, “wirtten” means TA. Is it a combination of wise and smitten? Or is it the union of witty and bitten? Perhaps the joining of wicked and kitten?

    Any chance you could offer us, less intellectual individuals some insight, almighty great one 😉 ?

  • TA @00.01 – That was my first thought ..ha ha

    Seriously, two blogs for the price of one!
    Great job TA
    Great addition Admir

    I do think people latch on to the extremes when thinking of the style of play?

    Why does ‘beautiful football'(TF) = ‘tippy tappy foot ball’

    Why does does having a solid defense deny all hope of creative football?

    Presumably in the former when there is no end product, either from a lack of talent in the striker, or simply over-playing the ball?

    The latter when there are two separate units on the pitch instead of a team of eleven?

    So, with due reference to the Vicar of Dibley my answer is;

    No, no, no, no, no, no, no, yes ….. no …………. what was the question again?

  • this is all about nothing its a false positive he is playing 451 same as he has 4 the last 8 years and Ramsy is weak and always out of position pushing forward its just they were boring no cutting edge and it wound up maybe to u looking like it was by design

  • Wenger is working with what he has got. Hoping that some players come good.
    You can’t play good football with inexprienced footballers.

  • Harmonious 03:03. …that would be one of the TQ signings we need to go to the ball.

  • nice one TA… am glad that you always stir people’s mind with your unique perspective

    regarding your post, my opinion is that Arsenal need to see progress and if that can only be realized by sacrificing Wengerball then so be it. supporters have seen what the two defensive minded players can bring to the table.
    would i sacrifice Wengerball for success and trophies? most definitely . it is a no brainer especially having experienced the drought. i would go on to claim that Wengerball has (to some extent) killed the progress. a reason for this assertion is that the current players are not particularly suited to Wengerball. We no longer possess a Fabregas, DB10, Pires and the likes.
    i would like Wenger to continue with the same setup used during the last part of last season because it brought results-though sometimes hard to watch.

  • All good points Jambo 🙂

    Our home form is key, agreed. It deserves a seperate post at some point, although you have written a mini-one about it already.

    Yes for Wengerball we need a lot of midfielders and maybe a return to 4-5-1 is the answer. I also feel that Wenger can only really do WB if and when he has a creative and very strong genius on the pitch. It looks like Cazorla is not that sort of player, and Wilshere will need more time due to his fitness issues, so he will have to buy to get there in the short term.

  • Coleon 🙂

    Spot on. Cesc’s ability to CONSTANTLY find space and put the ball through it is what we miss most of all. He gave structure and purpose to Wengerball like only DB10 could.

  • Malaysian G

    Dancing to win is the best isn’t it? Beautiful deadly football is what the modern Arsenal has all become about. I would not mind a grind it out season if it would give us sliverware AND the basis for future Wengerball, though.

  • Cheers JM – in league matches we started with a plan to play proper footie but our weaknesses at the back and midfield meant we conceded early goals time and again. So, Arsene switched it to ‘safety first’ with the hope to find the one or more goals that will get us the three points. Finding the balance is key and for me the first priority remains….. The man whose name translates in ‘Animal’ hahaha 🙂

  • Hahaha Gerry – beauty is in the eye of the beholder and yes tippy tappy without end product is like eternal seduction without ever being laid.

    One day one of us will write a post down the line of ‘what is beautiful football and are we right to be vain about it’ 🙂

  • Mikemo 🙂

    Simple but good point. Do you think the mixture of young, up and coming talent and experienced, mid to late twenties players will gradually make us play successful Wengerball? Just imagine we add a Cesc, Rooney or fully fit Jack, or Jovetic to the mix…

  • vcc 😛

    You have been quiet mate, is that because we have not bought anybody? Come out and play a bit and stop polishing your zimmerframe like an obsessed nutbum! 😀

  • Cheers mA

    Agreed with a lot. Do we not have the players? Possibly yes, but this could be resolved this summer by getting a bit of steel in midfield and a man for the hole. This is not beyond us and let’s see what happens.

    Short term I could live with us sacrificing our style of football but not long term.. Sharp sexy footie is what I want baby! 😛

  • @ TotalArsenal June 2, 2013 08:55

    “Finding the balance is key and for me the first priority remains….. The man whose name translates in ‘Animal’”

    The Benchmark (Javi Martinez, possibly one of the Top 3 DM/”Destroyer”/”21st century Liberio”/”Ball playing beast in the engine room” currently and one of the main reasons why Bayern Munich won a treble this season and came up short last season.

    That’s £35.2million in transfer fees alone. I would be happy if our club could sign a slightly lesser version for half that price.

  • JM – Thanks for the note on ONE OK ROCK …. I did say I would need the finance to see them .. Let’s see, 12 dogs @ £20 a piece should just cover it? …

    Perhaps not. Even a day trip to Islington is out of my reach at the moment.

    On our final match of the season I played ‘ No Scared’ at half time, which I thought was appropriate?
    JM, did you see the daft comment from some Japanese guy made about Taka ? ‘It is not very good English!’ …. I refrained from responding, but it is rock music, not a thesis, after all.

    Thanks again for the tip though

  • Thanks Hertz Van Rentals ( I`ve just worked it out, I thank you more than anyone I know ! )

    Wengerball…..or the stuff that got us 4th and with a few SQ additions will probably win us a trophy ! ……..get the polish out now !…….anyway, it wasn`t exactly Pulisball we were playing !.

    Right, out semi naked in the gardens for another sizzler and give the neighbourly females a treat !. How many times will they walk their dogs past to get a glimpse !. The police will probably arrest me for being in possession of a gorgeous body !. hahahaha

  • TA

    Interesting as always, but I am puzzled. Always am by this. Why is it that free flowing is always paired with increased defensive liability? Both in mind, mostly, and in outcome, often but less so.

    I think the answer is that so so few see defense as the foundation and opposite coin of offense. A great defense can have far less possession and bully teams all over the field.

    More specifically, my experience is that people confuse all out attack, with over committment of players and numbers, with good total football that looks to create a numbers advantage without over committment or risk. In the first, the counter leaves you hanging and done – Song (please god leave him at Barca) could do that for you without even attacking, just by forgetting to come back!

    The real one comes from creativity. Not only from the passer, who seems to get all the credit these days but even more so from those running off the ball. The CALCULATED run forward that can be removed or covered by another and some shifting (requires even more creative people paying attention), that does just theroght thing for numbers. Or even, the calculated run backwards (yes backwards) to pull a defender and create space for another…

    IMO, we were GREAT at the end last year and gave a good foundation. We were not, in that formation very creative. Theo has pace but… OG is target and moves well to get open, but.. Ramsey and Arteta did a great job as they were asked but it stifled… Podolski is clever but… Leaving only Santi and occasionally Rosicki when healthy…

    Thats not enough! We somehow need to keep those things that we did well and be more creative.

    Risks. Why this, THIS, transfer window is important. We need that spark. A true beast-like DM may make others more creative by offering them more opportunities when the other team isn’t all back in front of the ball and set. But, we rarely see that…

    A top striker is going to help but only a bit on conversion I suspect, unless they are so good they attract extra attention and open space for others.

    And that leads to my final point. We often have the ball but most, if not almost all, teams don’t play open football against us. Wigan and a few did, but most do not.. They sit and occupy all the space in the world, taking no chances. Then when we over committ to break through… Swansea and Michu anyone? Among many…

    So, THE LAST QUESTION…Do we lack creativity and play boring football or are we playing the game people present us. It can be stupid to try to force an all out attack on any fixed position, where patience and drawing them out is better suited.

    For TA was Holland worse or was Spain simply better at getting thru a set defense than their ability to score with what they had?

    Long but hopefully not too winding to be misunderstood too badly.

    Cheers — jgc

  • TA the balance of the team IMO is a little out. The players you mentioned would certainly improve any EPL team. But for me I would like to see another midfielder come in that can beef up our sometimes soft centre. You can’t play wining wenger ball from a weak midfield base.
    Who ever comes in would be a good reader of the game, be able to pass to a competent level. Be able to tackle and be a presence in the centre. You don’t tend to get those attributes in a young player.
    So what do we do?

  • Morning, people! 🙂

    Thanks for nice words, TA and Gerry.

    A little bit off-topic: Falcao said that his heart was always with Monaco ever since his idol Thierry played there. Now, don’t get me wrong, anyone with more than one brain-cell could see what kind of astonishing potential Thierry had but it’s not exactly that his performances at Monaco, even in 1996-97 when they won Le Championnat, can come anywhere near those in Arsenal shirt. If there is anything I hate from footballers’ PR, it’s: “I have been fan of __________ (name of the club he just signed for) ever since I was a little boy”-talk. Sometimes I wish all those little boys that are hidden inside footballers and magically appear after they signed the most lucrative contract of their career simply meet Freddy Krueger.

    TA, you mentioned previously a CL-winner that we need in our team. Julio Cesar was connected with us these days, with some reports from Italy that suggest we’ve already signed him. Now, Cesar was European champion with Inter and he did some job to help Inter winning it so he would fit your description. However, while I was thinking about Cesar, I remembered that his manager in Inter was…Jose Mourinho. With some reports suggesting Chavs will go for a new goalkeeper (I don’t know why – Čech and Curtois are arguably better duo than any other club has in its books), that could mean that Chavs would sell Čech – maybe to Monaco as they are in pursuit of high-reputation goalkeeper (first Valdes) and Čech has experience with Ligue 1 – and sign the best option if you consider quality/price ratio. Mourinho has had his ideas with goalkeepers before – after all, his downfall in Madrid is heavily connected with the problems he had with Casillas.

    Now, to make a round-up:

    1) we might go for Cesar to snatch him and get reinforcement that can only make Sczszesny a better goalkeeper – that would mean Fabianski’s contract won’t be renewed despite the fact we won all five matches Fabianski was in starting 11,

    2) Ramsey said he would be first to like Wanyama signing which is a great thing – Wanyama might solve our DM-conundrum for a long period,

    3) Cesc Fabregas apparently said on some Catalan radio that he won’t join FAnchester United… I can’t imagine him working under Mourinho after that Supercup match between Barcelona and Real Madrid so it leaves us with Manchester Oilers as our main rivals for Cesc’s signature,

    4) no new strikers won’t be recruited as transfers of Cesar, Wanyama and Fabregas – with wages – would probably swallow most of our transfer budget. That would mean we’d made three signings – not too many signings to jeopardize good atmosphere in the dressing room and team understanding but enough to fight for silverware on four fronts.

    For the next season, we’d have:

    Cesar/Sczszesny-Sagna/Jenkinson, Mertesacker/Miquel, Koscielny/Vermaelen, Gibbs/Monreal-Wanyama/Arteta/Coquelin, Arteta/Wilshere/Ramsey-Fabregas/Rosicky/Eisfeld-Walcott/Gervinho/Gnabry, Giroud/Podolski/Walcott, Cazorla/Podolski/Oxlade-Chamberlain. Some players can be used in more than one role so it can be modified. I went with our current formation though with Wanyama and Arteta it might be two different formations – the one with one holding midfielder (Wanyama) and the one with Arteta-Ramsey duo

    That would leave us with some question marks:

    1) Sagna’s contract expires in 2014 – will he stay, will we sign his replacement or put our hopes in Bellerin?

    2) Vermaelen stated he wants to stay – will we sign another central defender of Mertesacker’s characteristics or go with Miquel?

    3) If Arteta becomes a rotation player, who is going to get permanent armband? Mertesacker, Cazorla or even Cesc?

  • The answer is with the board and not Wenger and if he is part of that process then Wenger has not only sold out to corporate Arsenal but his philosophy on how the game should be played under his management .

    You cannot systematically sell your best players year after year reaping the rewards financially and then plough limited funds back into the club purchasing either good or someone who will show promise in three to five years. The saddest part is if any player demonstrate any quality they have to be kept out the sticky hands of Gazidis and co.

    Not sure if Arsenal is a well run club any more as we seem to be confused on what is success, is it a healthy financial state, is it seriously challenging for trophies without actually winning, or is it actually winning something of worth. I believe the currant set up is solely based on finance with the hope of securing top four year after year.

    The squad as a whole is not desperate, it has lots of good players but you need players of top quality to turn yourself into winners. Our performance against the top four in the league was very poor with only one point out a possible 18 gained, I also maintain if Adebayor had not got sent off at the Emirates ( Arsenal’s foley) the result could of been very different.

    In essence release the funds, pay the price and replace that quality you have squandered away and then Wenger can play his Wengerball and stop trying to sell season tickets being linked with Rooney!!!!!

  • Hi Total and all fine Gooners…yes I have been quiet lately, I have had a few projects to attend to. I have kept in touch by reading posts when I can but spare time had been limited lately.

    I have been touring the OAP’s homes around Essex and parading my new Patented Zimmerframes. Hoping to get a web site up and running soon so all can see the super quality items I have to display. Some shiny ones, some matt ones, and some funky ones.

    Lastly, I would like to say, Wenger get your flipping cheque book out and buy Wanyama, Isco, Sesc.and Higuain. That’s my WISH list. Someone explain it to GLiC please cos I havnt the time to hang around, L8ers muvverz.

  • Omgz omgz, we’re now being linked with Lars Bender, one of my top 3 dream signings!

    If we weren’t linked to signing a million other players, maybe I’d feel more confident about AW’s chances at signing him hahaha!

  • So today’s round-up includes: Wanyama, L.Bender, Sow, Grenier, Cesar, Rooney, McCarthy, Villa and Benteke…

  • You need to take a cold shower HH !. hahaha

    I can confirm the reason Vic`s has not been about is because he`s been banged up !. The bastard was caught speeding in his Zonda Zimmer by the Old Bill in Lakeside shopping centre.
    He was breathalysed and found to be over the limit, not only that, but on closer inspection of his Zonda Zimmer, it was found out to be a Cut and Shut job ( for you bastards who are not too familiar with this saying, basically in motoring terms , it`s two or more cars welded together ! ) . His house was then raided and found out to be an illegal Cut and Shut Zimmerframe factory !.
    The evil Zimmercrime lord has been serving time at her majesties pleasure and has pleaded his innocence from day one, saying he knows nothing about any of it !.
    To tell the truth, knowing what a senile old git he is, I believe him and think he has been stitched up by his dodgy looking missus to take the rap.

  • So Lars Bender is one of HH`s top 3 wet dream signing`s !…….would the other two be…..Sven Bender and the less known triplet….. Ivor Bender !.
    Not quite making his top 3 was ……Paul Mipantzdan and Phil Mycox !. hahaha

  • HH, from our conversions in the past we have both come to the conclusion that Cesar would be perfect. He is an experienced GK who has won trophies.

    For DM I would like to see Gustavo from Bayern. He is the most experienced DM we have been linked with and he has also won trophies. Bayern may be willing to sell at a good price.

  • jgc – excellent comment which I read twice. It is the sort of response I would love to discuss with you whilst drinking a Hoegaarden or Wiekse Witte in a Belgian pub 😛

    Free flowing football with a great defensive discipline by the whole team is the holy grail. If and when it does not work Wenger has, eventually, no option but to revert back to being solid at the back. It appears to be very hard for him to get our team back to winning Wengerball but I am hopeful we will do so next season. The rest we’ll discuss another time!! 🙂

  • All good points Admir and I love your enthusiasm-between-the-lines! 😛

    Yes, yes, yes, I would be a happy Dutchman if we were to sign Animal, Cescy football and Oral Juices. This summer. Captaincy would go to Cesc or Mertesacker – job done. Can we go home now?!?! 😀

  • All agreed AFC, Cesar is the perfect experienced GK for us, especially seeing as he wants to stay in London, has a pedigree of success AND is PL proven.

    My biggest gripe with any Arsenal transfer business is how much we haggle and delay over the difference of £1-2 million.

  • Hi Welshman 🙂

    What’s occurring?! 😛

    All good points. Agreed our results against the top-three have not been good enough. I reckon if we had plaid more conservatively/ organised at the back, we would have done a lot better. We played naively against the Mancs away, the Chavs and CIty at home and paid the price for it. I reckon this team will do better next season, but agreed we need to add top quality to give ourselves a better chance.

    Who would you want Wenger to buy WM?

  • Welshman, I agree with everything in your comment, as you basically echoed my thoughts word for word. However, we actually managed to get 2 points off of the clubs that finished above us domestically 😀 ;).

  • Wanyama would bring the most amount of “presence” to Arsenal that Jgc so desperately desires. Capoue would bring even more “presence”, but lack some of the technical qualities that Mikemo has asked for in order to play proper Wengerball again.

    From a technical, age/development standpoint, Wanyama makes the most sense and has the room for growth to really develop into a scary player.

  • Exactly TA, if you look at all of the top clubs in the PL, they largely lack that “fear factor”, which is something we could really take advantage of (gain an edge on the competition). Chavs sort of have it with Ramires and Manure may get it with Fellaini, but I don’t consider either to be consistent defensive presences, making assertive tackles and using their strength and presence to break up plays.

    Offensive game plans are not altered to compensate for the fact that either of these two players are on the pitch, though they are still great players in their own right.

  • Why not kill two birds with on stone HH, take her to the Emirates and Ivana Benderova the seat in front, insert the Highbury Hampton whilst watching a game at the same time and have a bet who scores first !. Now that’s what I call Total Up The Arsenal !. hahaha

  • Hahahaha Glic, now that would be a dream come true! Two fantasies for the price of one! But, which one would I focus on?

  • Nice TA,

    Would you say it is basically down to personnel, right players right positions or would you say wenger ball cannot exist and b succesful (winning trophies) due to the adoption and adaptation of new formations and systems of opposing teams, the league in general? Can wengerball as we kno and love exist in today’s football? Or will wengerball itself have to change to ‘work around’ at current football which will be a new tact?

    If you think all that is a load of tosh pls say! 🙂
    And if it is down to the right personnel could you please elaborate who and where you see fit to giving us wengerball and still win!

    I would like to hear HH’s thoughts if he has any on what I have said.

    Thx

  • Hahaha HH. How embarrassing would it be if Ivana starts screaming …..YES…YES…YESSSSSSSSS….as the Referee tosses the coin and 59,999 fans turn and look at you !. You could always cry………” I`m starting a Mexican wave ! ” hahaha

  • G4e49, first of all, your insight and thoughts are never a load of tosh! You raise some very good points and are exploring some excellent questions that unfortunately none of us can give you answers to.

    If you look at the latest title winners (Chavs, Manure and $hitty), you’ll come to find that none of these sides play “attractive” football. Their fans will tell you that they play “attractive” football but that definition is largely bias and contingent on the basis of “forward passing”. So then, it could be said that these clubs have all relied on either a system in place or the quality of players to help them achieve success. No educated fan would describe any of those sides as ones that play beautiful football, but maybe proper football.

    What is the best strategy for us going forward then? Sadly, there is no correct answer. If we are able to get better results by playing more defensive, but proper football (i.e. keeping the ball along the ground when attacking) then it may be all we strive for. It remains to be seen if “beautiful football” (imo free flowing, forward thinking, triangle passing) can be successful in this league since it hasn’t been done in a while. My personal belief is that it can be achieved but only if the proper quality of talent is either developed or bought in the TW.

    Then, it’s a matter of getting the pieces you have to play that brand of football and be patient enough to see it through, without immediately reverting to a defensive strategy to better guarantee results. Of course, the question then becomes will the board/AW take the risk to purchase such quality of players to allow us to play Wengerball again? Or are they content with whatever strategy that produces results, while still honouring the tenets of profit and financial sustainability?

    At the end of the day, it could be as jgc stated earlier – a combination of beautiful football with a concerted effort in collective team defending that allows us to beat teams that try to PTB/counter our hopeful, free-flowing style. The days of purely outscoring the opposition are not realistic (in the EPL at least) and we’d be better served playing a German brand of football that is constantly moving forward and backwards like a well-oiled machine (of course with more of an emphasis on moving forward).

  • Glic, or hopefully she only screams “HARDER, HARDERRRRRR” in conjunction with one of our players shooting the ball or fouling the opposition hahaha! If it’s raining in North London, then it’ll perfectly fine if she talks about how “wet she is” hahaha!

  • HH – It is your last paragraph that I find most interesting … Now where have I seen that phrase before?
    By ‘German’, I guess you mean more BM than BD?

  • Gerry, I always knew you had a bit of a kinky streak in you ;). At least we know your sexual orientation after finding the comment in my last paragraph “interesting” hahaha!

  • speaking of bender’s,

    let’s give one of our own bender’s i mean bentner to Naples in part exchange for Cavani ?

    but such a deal should only be accepted if naple’s offer us cash (20 million) + cavani for Nicklas . B

  • And yes Gerry, I believe you have made a similar comment many times before. However, by German football I am speaking to the Bundesliga as a whole and not just Bayern. German football is often made equivalent to that of Bayern because of the quality of players they have in place and largely because of their presence on the International club stage.

    However, the Bundesliga in general is very attack oriented and their football persists in moving forwards, opposed to the conservative sideways passing we often see from Arsenal or other more conservative teams (ones that focus too much on possession too). Of course, there are variations within the Bundesliga of the attack, forward passing approach, but the league as a whole is very exciting to watch.

  • Agreed.(Ignoring the wind up first sentence)

    This is where we also agree, I think, that the right DM would give us more flexibility?

    I like idea of a 4-1-2-3, where the ‘3’ is a mixture of 2 strikers and an advanced AM, the ‘2’ can be wide, alternating with the strikers to give width, as well as our wing-backs.

    To be more defensive with the double pivot 4-2-1-3/4-3-3 depending on players.

    Also with the players we have in Ox and Walcott, who fit the bill to play wide, and cutting inside, and additions up front and midfield, the DM and Cesc or Grenier at the head of a diamond, plus Santi/Rosicky/ Walcott/Ox across the middle, and DM + Jack/Arteta/Ramsey, along with the back 5, I reckon that would be a pretty good core squad of 14?

  • GLiC 15:43…..you Sir, are a comic genius…………but I have to say your in big trouble when my missus meets you . lmfao.

  • I must be a sad bastard, I keep clicking onto that link and just watching the time go by with a grin on my face !. hahaha

    I miss you Vic`s baby….your not on here enough !……it`s me ….Glic !…….f**k it !….Mr Gold Fish memory !. hahaha

  • Gerry, yes a DM would certainly give us more flexibility. The only question is how much do we spend on a DM? The media would have you believe that there are several available in the £10-15 million range and still some in the £20-25 million range. Is there a huge discrepancy between the type of talent we could get in the aforementioned ranges? Will the new DM have a profound impact on our team to justify his price tag at all? Can you truly quantify the impact a DM has on a squad relative to his price? Willa DM successful in shutting down the opposition in weaker leagues have the same success in the EPL?

    The 4-1-2-3 works if we have the attacking intent and proper DM for sure. However, our squad has seemingly picked up a knack/bad habit of constantly recycling passes, going backwards and sideways without much forward movement. Such a formation also makes Arteta and Ramsey both likely candidates for the bench and I’m not convinced AW would be looking to move in such a drastic direction with our formation.

    The 4-2-1-3 is more likely and if the proper DM comes in, hopefully Arteta/Ramsey (whomever starts between them) is given the confidence and license to attack more freely. Alternatively, if we sign a true B2B mid like L.Bender, we could see an interchanging DM role (similar to Song and Arteta) and really add some fluidity to our attack and defense.

    A core squad of 14 would be a good start and something to build on, but I’m convinced you need a good core of 16 to challenge in all competitions in earnest (CL, EPL, FA and CO cups). So, core of 14 for next season and 2 more pieces the season after = silverware? 😉

  • England look awful, why did Milner start over Ox? There’s 0 creativity in the England side right now.

  • It really is baffling, how we ( England ) have not won the WC since 1966 !. 😉

    Walcott has managed to look shit and dangerous at the same time ! hahaha

  • I like the way we ( England ) keep hold of the ball by pass and moving and playing little triangles that we hardly pass it back to the goalie !. Why do we ( England ) play like Stoke ?. Will we ( England ) ever evolve and be able to hold on to the ball ?.
    There`s Total Football and there`s Total Shit !.
    Give me a ball and I will pass it to my own player, not 10 yards either side of him !. Lucky that England don’t stress me out like Arsenal !. hahaha

  • how we’re not losing this one 5-0 already is beyond me.

    no spine in this team at all, should have tried the OX in the midfield – Roy

  • Glics,

    it could be worse if we were Germany (losing 4-1 to USA) 😀

  • Glic, is it different than how Theo normally looks hahaha?!

  • Germany is experimenting with their side…it’s no wonder they’re down 4-1.

  • I hope when he gets angry, the shorts stay on. Works on many levels, get it? get it? 😉

  • OXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
    you lil beautyyyyyyyy

    i l ove you

    what a goal that was!!!! blinder stunner!!

  • now let’s get theo to score and make it 3-2

    2-2 currently

    an open game now

  • JB, is Theo going to score from the bench? That’d be insane!!!

  • Obviously my half-time pep talk did the trick !. hahaha

    We didn`t start playing until we were 1-0 down and the Ox come on !.
    Rooney maybe a grannie shagger but he is a classy one !.
    I liked the look of Bernard in his cameo, I would take a punt before someone else does !. How much is his release clause HH ?.

  • No surprise that things happened for England when Ox came on the pitch, as I had predicted that he should have started. Though, one must question what AW was doing all year when he had a talent as good as Ox rarely featuring…still what an amazing striker by the young lad. He’s giving AW a selection headache for next season and I love it 🙂

  • Glic, Bernard’s release clause is rumoured to be around €11 million. However, Spartak Moscow had a £9.8 million bid rejected this past season, so it remains to be seen what the buy-out clause really is. He was released twice by Atletico Mineiro and currently plays as a CAM for them.

  • I`ve wanted the Ox to play all along, the boy is versatile for either wing or in the middle, he has a great strike on him, skilful, quick and inventive !. I bet Arsene is sating….” sacre f**king bleu….I have ze headache ! “

  • HH

    Two things: ..

    Great goal and maybe after this Ox will have the confidence, or more of it, to dominate more.

    Second, your much earlier list of who we are linked with was obviously obviously flawed. There were only 9 on it,and world beaters they may be, you need 11 to play. Please go out and find 2 more. At least tho we will be playing total attacking football, cuz there were no real defenders there bar the GK! 🙂

    Cheers — jgc

  • Jgc, we are also being linked with Mignolet since you question our links to defenders ;). Let’s not forget about Abdisalam Ibrahim, another one dubbed “the next Patrick Vieira”…I can’t tell you how many young players have garnered the same tag hahaha!

    I’m hoping Ox forces his way onto the first-team next season. Best case scenario, he starts at LW and Santi plays centrally as Jack can be eased into the line-up. Podolski starts up front and Theo on the right.

  • Apparently the fact that betting has been suspended for Cesar’s move to Arsenal is a good sign that a deal has likely been clinched for us.

    Who knew the bookies were privy to insider information on transfers ahahaha!

  • Just come back from watching the game with a QPR supporter and he’s saying Cesar is a good shot stopper but can be prone to mistakes: he does not recommend him…

  • a keeper wouldn’t be a keeper if he wasn’t prone to a mistake here n there.

    Cesar is the real deal, i have followed him since his days at Inter and also watched how he single handedly kept QPR in the games sometimes, it’s not his fault they were rubbish at scoring goals. he made a couple of mistakes sure but his mistakes but who doesn’t ?

  • good stuff, looking forward to the next maiden post, let’s see who’s got off the mark next 😉

  • All agreed JB, I watched him very carefully at QPR and he was absolutely outstanding. Your comment @ 23:01 echoes my earlier one in a different post word for word, it’s not his fault their team was absolute garbage!

  • 3.5 million for Cesar and 65 k wages are a fair deal, it also allows Sczny to develop into the world class stopper we all hope he would and he would know that even if Cesar is the new no.1 it won’t be for the next 10 years unless he is another friedel in disguise , ha

    but this will mean bad news for fab (i reckon he’s not going to sign a contract extension) and Mannone tho

  • TA,

    it’s very likely that Cesar will make a mistake here n there, sure

    but with all due respect to QPR fans, they didn’t even have a back 4 to shield the goalie let alone an entire team.

    if we get Cesar on board , he might be able to surprise a lot of people including your mate , perhaps then you can have a nice little banter with him 😀

    his stopping and distribution is absolutely top notch…plus he’s a winner and has won quite a few trophies/medals which speaks volumes in it’s own.

    i much rather have someone who’s experienced it all in that vital position as opposed to the other keepers linked to us , tbh.

  • TA, JB and HH, Cesar looked pretty capable at QPR. Remember we are just looking for an experienced GK who can be rotated with Szez.

    Only worry for me is that Cesar wants to be a regular starter so he can cement his place as Brazil’s no.1 GK.

  • New Post New Post! 😛

    BK is moving even more eastwards this time: the latest maiden post comes from Melbourne!

    Alex has produced a fine discussion post; he believes the club is now in a great position to return back to the glory days, but would like to discuss what we feel needs to be done to get there. Enjoy! 🙂

  • Would Cesar come to Arsenal to sit on the bench.

    Hats off to the Ox for his goal. 🙂

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